DHW Mapping League 2 begins - grab the kit here!

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Arielus
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Post by Arielus »

Hello AlumiuN,

Hope all is well on your end.

Following up on the brief ML-related conversation we had here: https://dhw.wolfenstein3d.com/viewtopic ... start=1514, could you please remind me what definitions we have in the latest ML #2 mapping kit that was released, meaning for which editor(s)? Or does the kit actually contain definitions from the old ML #1?

Looking to get some clarity before I jump into the kit again. There's finally some time to spare on my end so I am hoping I can lay down an idea or two on the canvas after a long, long time of inactivity.

Thanks!

Ariel
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AlumiuN
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Post by AlumiuN »

Hey, the definitions in the latest kit are for Chaosedit; I was intending on getting definitions for other editors done, but I caught Covid a few days after that conversation, and during and since then I haven't had the energy to work on them (or much of anything). Part of the reason I use Chaosedit myself is because the definitions are very easy to make; Mapedit in particular is getting very hard to make reasonable definitions for because most of the sane combinations of symbols are already used :P Honestly even Chaosedit is going to become a problem if I add much more, because it doesn't support icons for values above 512 for either plane.
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Arielus
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Post by Arielus »

AlumiuN,

Thank you for your response. I will give ChaosEdit another try; I have never built anything beyond a few rooms with it in all these years but hopefully it won't be too hard to get accustomed to. Fingers crossed.

In the meantime, may I ask if WDC is also challenging to make definitions for for this mapping kit?

Thank you so much for the 1000th time for all the effort you've put into this over so many years.

Best,

Ariel
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AlumiuN
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Post by AlumiuN »

WDC is significantly less challenging than Mapedit to make symbols for, however it only supports the EGA colours for them, so while you can come up with a unique symbol, it can be difficult to make them easily distinguishable.
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Post by Atina »

You could try WLEdit as an alternative to ChaosEdit. It's quite similar or you could call it a remake. It can also automatically convert some map definitions. Not sure how stable the current version is.

https://wolf3d.darkbb.com/t3740-wledit- ... -22-update
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Post by shodan »

AlumiuN wrote:WDC is significantly less challenging than Mapedit to make symbols for, however it only supports the EGA colours for them, so while you can come up with a unique symbol, it can be difficult to make them easily distinguishable.
I too discovered this with adding new enemies... using color variations for the difficulty level of enemies runs out of colors very fast, so what I ended up doing is switching each type of enemy to the same color and using sequences of red dots to indicate difficulty level. Still not the easiest to distinguish at a glance, especially when enemies are placed directly adjacent to others or on ambush floors, but it works. Other statics I got in the habit of more or less drawing the object instead of using a symbol (like the # sign in dark green used for vines), but I didn't convert everything to that. I also did some of that for walls, but again somewhat inconsistently - and I only have 80 wall IDs used, so didn't have too big an issue with the limited color selection. I haven't messed around with changing the symbol colors (didn't even know that was an option until recently), but 16 colors is pretty limiting regardless of what they actually are.
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Adam Biser
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Post by Adam Biser »

ack has brought this topic up with me and I think I could easily expand the number of colors allowed in a map symbol from 16 to 64.

Thinking along the lines of this, keeping the first 16 the same as they are now, but if someone has other suggestions for the extra 48, feel free to contact me.
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Post by Thomas »

A trick that helps in massive object and map data definition files is that while some of the icons have the same color, place them as far away from each other as possible. Using wonky colors might also do the trick, even if the color is completely unrelated to the object/wall.
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Post by shodan »

Adam Biser wrote:ack has brought this topic up with me and I think I could easily expand the number of colors allowed in a map symbol from 16 to 64.

Thinking along the lines of this, keeping the first 16 the same as they are now, but if someone has other suggestions for the extra 48, feel free to contact me.
Might be worth swapping out some of the less-distinguishable colors for some extra grays, as that color set still only has black, white, and two shades of gray (#555555 and #AAAAAA), and the differences between some of the colors are probably not going to show up well (particularly the lighter greens and paler blues). Of course, doing that would break from the EGA mixture of 00, 55, AA, and FF bytes, which might not be ideal... but given the general color scheme of Wolf, more grays (and browns, maybe?) might be useful.
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Post by Adam Biser »

Here is a preliminary 64-color palette. I tried to keep with the EGA aesthetic while providing some lighter and darker shades in hopes of allowing nicer contrasts.

http://dhw.wolfenstein3d.com/album_page.php?pic_id=360
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shodan
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Post by shodan »

Adam Biser wrote:Here is a preliminary 64-color palette. I tried to keep with the EGA aesthetic while providing some lighter and darker shades in hopes of allowing nicer contrasts.

http://dhw.wolfenstein3d.com/album_page.php?pic_id=360
Solid choices, imo :tup:
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